As a part of our conversations with clients webinar-series, we interviewed Matthew Wilson, General Counsel at Fremantle about career development and career management for in-house lawyers (IHLs).

When considering roles and moves, Matt applies the following criteria:

1. Pick an industry that’s interesting and will be interesting for 5-10 years
2. Pick what interests you, you need a reason to get out of bed in the morning and feel energised about the day ahead. If you’re not genuinely interested, you’ll struggle
3. Pick good people to work with – it’s really important to have positive relationships

Matt has encountered many processes to secure roles and the role at Uber was a particularly protracted one:

• Approximately 10 interviews across a range of contacts at Uber:
  • Internal Recruiter
  • Hiring Manager
  • People within business across range of roles and countries (across six to seven interviews)
  • Final interview stage

How do you deal with knock backs amidst such tough processes
Stay close to recruiters and don’t be afraid to ask honest questions and get a feel for if you are in the running or not – and don’t waste your time (or theirs) if you are not.

How do you manage relationships internally – upwards, sideways and vertically?

• Sideways ones are the most important – these are the people who are on the same level as you and it’s more likely you will progress along with them they are ‘with you the longest’
• Positive relationships are really important and give you an honest view of what’s really going on in a business
• Every year, Matt has regular meetings across the legal team – this amounts to about 100 meetings, but it means he can spend 15 minutes catching up with someone about their developments, or longer on a particular issue. The visibility it gives him is great as it builds trust and also helps him amass helpful information for his role
• It’s also really important to build respect and esteem so that others promote and endorse you – so you don’t always have to go down the self-promotion route.

What are your expectations of your team:

• To be good people
• To be good lawyers
• Matt tends to look at what he’s not good at and recruit people who are – he endorses getting people who are better than you at various things. This allows you to trust them to get on with it and means you don’t have to micromanage

How has your progress been planned and how much is not?

• This is a mixture of a bit of both! At Uber, Matt knew nothing about the taxi industry and the company took a leap of faith choosing him. As a result, Matt met other lawyers who worked for start-ups and together they formed the ‘Disruptive GC Group’ which allowed him to get to know people and forge friendships and links which have been helpful
• He also goes to conferences and industry groups – despite being a natural introvert, these are more about building relationships than knowledge. Don’t be afraid to say hello to people and ‘you don’t know where the coffees you have with people might lead’

How do you know when to move on:

• Be honest with yourself
  • Are you bored?  And this is a more long-term feeling than a couple of days here and there
  • Are you still learning things in your role?
  • Do you want to be comfortable or challenged?
    • Matt was very clear about the fact there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to be comfortable, do a good job and focus on other areas of your life (for example, home life and family) and that you don’t have to be ruthlessly ambitious at all times. In fact, being open and honest about where you are in this mindset is really helpful and a great thing to be honest about

What’s the one thing you’ve done to help maximise your opportunities?
Say yes to things – even if you don’t know it.

How do you work with a mentor:
Be honest. Don’t say what you think they want to hear and be honest about how well it’s working – you may be better suited to someone else and don’t be afraid to think that way

Should GCs be on the Board
Matt believes you should be invited onto the Board because of you, not your role

What would you tell your younger self:
Don’t worry, think carefully about your choices, and take your time choosing

Is it better for your CV to stick at one role or move around?
This depends on circumstances – as long as you have honest and compelling reasons for the moves (obviously if it’s 6 months at a time that’s not great!) then you shouldn’t worry.